Ann 2
Alain
JennYDoes the Mind of the Artist Contribute to Drug Use?
November 18th 2006 23:52
Paging Dr. Freud...(Wikipedia)
This post was inspired by comments to two previous posts, 'Muzikal Talent Lost to Drugs: Who Do You Miss?' and
The premise of the statements made, by Wendi and Hellvis to name a couple, are based on drugs helping artists to reach a "higher" level, -(pardon the pun), - which tapped into some creative source they would not have been capable of, otherwise.
This led me to thinking about overall drug use in the music industry. Yes, it is everywhere and certainly not restricted to music. No need for a debate on that particular point. Yet, there is definitely a link between some of the greatest artists and drug abuse, (including alcohol).
Do unknown artists just have a long time problem with drugs or tendency to experiement with them and then become famous, which leads to excess? Or never strike it big leaving them to medicate their misery? (If this is true, Kanye West may be next...)
Do artists feel pressured to continuously climb to higher levels, -(I'm not doing it on purpose, I swear)? To achieve more and more success? Is it that pressure alone to create or the pressure to be brilliant at the creative process that does it?
What is it about the creative process that make artists self destructive? Is it more that we wax poetic about the tragedy of addiction because the person was famous? Is drug addiction even related to creativity?
Are drugs just a symptom of creativity? Do their brains 'fire' differently because of their creativity, which helps contribute to drug addiction, etc?
Or, is it that these people are brilliant and for whatever reason, do not believe they deserve the success they have achieved?
Do we contribute to the problem by stripping them of their privacy? Yes, we can blame their lack of privacy on the media, but come on, if we didn't buy the article or the paper or read the websites about celebrities' private lives, they wouldn't be made, would they?
Does their brain work differently, misfire somewhere within the brain that seats that type of choice, to make them more prone to drug use?
Throw in your two cents worth...why do they do it?
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Comment by David my David
I can’t answer a lot of the questions posed in your post because they relate specifically to artists who are musos … I am not a muso. I have two artistic degrees: bullshit artist, and writer.
But I can chip my two bob’s worth in regarding a couple of the questions you have posed, because they relate to the creative artist in general, not necessarily creative artist of the specifically-musical kind.
A creative artist who is serious about his/her art/craft soon realises how much time and effort is required in order to perfect one’s skills. For artists who do not begin this journey from a position of financial independence and security (and it seems that few great artists do), practical considerations (the ones so necessary to maintain some semblance of stability and balance in ordinary daily life; food, shelter, clothing, finances, etc) are not taken care of, or paid for (for they all cost money). They fall by the wayside, get neglected and ignored. The pursuit of artistic excellence often preoccupies the mind of the artist to the exclusion of all practical considerations in life.
Drugs and alcohol do not interrupt the creative process. They can alter it, but they do not interrupt it, whereas tending to the mundane obligations so necessary to maintaining a balanced life do. And so the artist often chooses the easy option. Who has time to eat when they are on the verge of creating something outstanding? Or worry about eviction? Or pay an overdue bill? Or get a real job? Go anywhere to earn a living (except to the dole office once a fortnight?). Or care about what they are wearing. I agree with George Michael. Sometimes the clothes do not make the man. They certainly contribute little to creativity. Try writing naked to someone you love, if you don’t believe me.
I think addiction often starts as a quick fix (or necessary-obligation substitute). A quick fix that slowly ruins everything. It is destructive behaviour to not tend to practical things to begin with. Becoming rich and famous only alters the degree (and price) of destructive behaviour, and puts it on show for others to see ... It was always there. Those with perception will see it in its infant stages ... Those of us perceptive artists see it ... and are experts at ignoring it or pretending it doesn't exist. It's called denial.
For me, I have never needed drugs nor alcohol to get my creative juices flowing. I have made the odd withdrawal from the sperm bank, and paid in a different way to get them flowing ... But that's another addiction completely ...
David …
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I agree with you on everything you have said. The creative mind doesn't shut down for the practicality of life. If I could, I would quit everything and follow in the steps of one of my favorite writers of all time, and live a boho life in pursuit of my dreams of writing.
Speaking from an artistic standpoint, I work full-time, I go to writing college full-time, while raising four children and trying to maintain some sense of balance with it all. If you have read my self-named blog, you will see a great deal of desire within my own mind to escape from the burdens of everyday life. I am often frustrated by the lack of time I can devote to writing.
There will be a lot of time for serious devotion to writing once they are raised. I consider myself blessed because there will be an abundance of experiences for me to draw from when the task of raising them is complete.
Thankfully, illegal drugs have not been necessary to jumpstart my creative process...but I do have a viscious nicotine habit, which has gotten me through a few rough patches in the writing process...that among other things...as I said, I agree with you on everything you said. *wink*
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Damo
The bottom line is that often reality sucks and drugs give a time out. In a world where 10% inspiration requires 90% perspiration, effort sucks. Drugs have a romantic image and is very attractive if you class yourself as a rebel. Musos and Executives canstart using drugs to fullfil their dreams of rebelling against...something.
Does it help create great works that would otherwise not exist? Possibly no more than anyother of lifes experiences and less than others. The question is which dream you want to believe: sex drugs & rock n roll; or hard work and research. I know which sound more romantic.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I have often referred to the romanticism of drug use in music.
Let me ask you this, do you think that if an artist dies of an overdose that it helps elevate their work in the minds of their fans to a different and higher level?
Come back, I enjoy your common sense approach to my posts. *smile*
Voices~
Comment by David my David
If I could, I would quit my own boho life, enter corporate life, and earn enough money to pay for the realisation of your dreams … and the realisation of the dreams of this boho whom you pursue so relentlessly in that beautiful way of yours … It would give me so much pleasure to pay for that … I would take so much pleasure in your combined bliss. I would be happy for both of you.
But, I fear that if I enter corporate life, and earn money, I will turn into a selfish corporate arsehole … one full of the pride of life … and completely disregard the pair of you … It's what I've perceived all of the rest of them to do ...
So, instead, the best I can do is …
Send you a free, virtual, one-way plane ticket to the place where this boho lives … so you can visit him (in your virtual dreams) without ever returning … and spend the remainder of your days writing, having sex, writing, having sex, writing, having sex, writing … etc …
Reading books written by 'writers' without any life experience is akin to trying to find some meaning from the shit and piss in the public toilets of some upmarket pub… or listening to the ‘wanna-be artistic’ types who are responsible for the urination and defecation; the ones who drink piss and dribble shit in the front bar like modern-day philosophers who know all about philosophy and writing, without ever having written anything of note, or having a philosophy credit to their name.
Pursue experience. It shits on theory. And I would not piss on these people if they were burning to death with their desire to write ... They will never write anything of note. Why should I save someone from their own desire to live in mediocrity?
And when your children are independent. Look me up. I want to discuss the need for ‘no words’ with you …
David …
Comment by Wendi
I don't believe the drugs create the talent, just that they may widen the window through which talent flows.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Do not ever go into corporate life, they do not deserve you.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Of course, drug use is widespread and knows no boundaries. I am not trying to suggest that creative and artistic minds are the only ones to suffer from it. I am asking, although not clearly, if creative and artistic minds are more prone to it? Meaning, does their brain work differently, misfire somewhere within the brain that seats that type of choice, to make them more prone to drug use? I will modify the post to clarify that.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Brenton
Dr Spin
Tales From The Other Side
Blip Blog
Gadget Museum
Comment by Pilgrim
* Short Stories *
Comment by Damo
Now the question is what has any of this got to do with actually producing art? Hmmm?
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
What you said makes a lot of sense to me. Artists generally push the envelop, cause people to question their beliefs, their values and why they suscribe to a certain ideal. It would make sense that their use of drugs could be seen as "I am more enlightened than you".
Thank you for commenting and come back,
Voices~
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I think it may be that the vantage point is much different from which they write their songs, their books, etc, with the use of drugs rather than an ability to do it better. Perhaps we are just overthinking the whole thing. What if they just want to get wasted??
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
What it has to do with is how much of today's music that we love can be attributed partially to drug use? Books that we read? Art that we see? What if, with the eradication of drug use in the world, we never again experienced art that was mind-boggling and genius? Would people still rally for drugs to be eradicated knowing that? If not, what does that say about our society? If so, what does that say about our society? Just throwing questions around...
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Pilgrim
* Short Stories *
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Exactly. There isn't a way to definitively answer this question but it does make one think. I know someone who is addicted to drugs and that 'round and round' dichotomy also applies to their entire existence.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Wendi
Yes, I do believe creative minds are more prone to drugs, alcohol, or some other form of "crutch". Why? Because creative minds delve deep within themselves to extract raw emotion and translate that raw emotion into powerful visions through paintings, words, sculputres, movements, etc. Creative minds, in my opinion, are more etherial whereas those who are less creative have their feet firmly planted in the reality of the here and now.
What makes us connect to music? We can feel what the artist felt - we've cried the same tears; we've screamed the same screams, yet we weren't able to clearly express the emotion ourselves until the music brought about a connection and a release. Some creative mind had to "face the beast" within, reckon with it, understand it, and then convert it into a language we could relate to.
I believe creative minds have extended vision, an extended reach into the abyss of emotion - and because of this deep-soul diving, are more inclined to seek out "altered states" of being.
I think much of it, though, can also be attributed to art as a profession versus art as a hobby or a personal passion. For example, a song-writer/singer may love to tinker with their words and music in the comfort of their own home. They can be prolific and moving and inspiring when working on their own terms. But turn that into a profession and you've got new elements to contend with - producers, edits, labels, tours, public image -- AND the pressure of the "next release" which must be popped out in an insanely short amount of time in order to fuel more sales. The pressures mount when the inspiration is leashed by corporate hands and expectations are plenty.
There are also the factors of finance and availability. Once you hit super-stah (strikes a pose) status, money flows like water and things suddenly become available (if not pushed on you) that weren't easily accessible in the past.
Anyone can have a drug or alcohol problem, but I personally believe that creative individuals are more likely to develop a "crutch" to help balance out what they're feeling internally, or to help cope with the pressures and demands of their chosen profession.
Then again, I could be wrong... it's happened before. *winks*
W
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
*applauding* Very well said. I think that hits it right on the head. Excellent comment! I can't really add anything to that except to quote some lyrics from AIC *smile*
The song, 'Sludge Factory', which appropriately enough, deals with drug abuse and the creative process...
"Call me up congratulations aint the real why'
Theres no pressure besides brilliance lets say by day nine'
Endless corporate ignorance lets me control time."
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Wendi
Comment by tinkster
to do with the artist drug use. These artist are not immortal, they hurt like we do, and sometimes they
have to wonder why everyone loves them. We don't get to see the ugly truth of their drug use. We
do kind of contribute, beause it's okay in our eyes because of the music. I know if I was with Layne
Staley day in, day out, and dealing with all the shit that comes with heroin addicts..No way would I love
him like I do now. We put an image that we love in our heads, and then it's over. As long as they keep
putting out the records, we are good. They are not going to upset us on a Wednesday night, when
they called all fucked up. We really don't have to deal with their use. It sucks I know, but it's true.
Comment by Brenton
Dr Spin
Tales From The Other Side
Blip Blog
Gadget Museum
Sure, but same goes for anything that feels good. I know I wanted to stay at the Sigur Ros concert I went to for the rest of my life.
Certain drugs also match certailn ideologies. I guess Heroin is kind of cool. E is loving. LSD is spiritual. Cocain is successful. Alchohol is party time. Smoking is badass. Speed is a rush. Etc, etc. And it's alot of these ideologies that apply to certain types of music, and the lives of those who love it.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
*smile* Nuff said.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Now, this is a very interesting point you make. I see where you are going with it but you also have to consider the location from which the sound that is associated with an ideology, as you are suggesting, stems from, too.
Hole, Nirvana, AIC, and everyone originally part of the evolution of Grunge were from a port town, Seattle, WA. Heroine is always the drug of choice in a port town with few exceptions. <--- and I am only saying that last thing because I have to. (It is.)
So, what we characterize as an ideology may actually boil down to simple logic of what is the most available to get and "Just how big a wound would you like to numb today?" That's a pretty powerful couple, that so far, no one has been able to break up successfully.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Brenton
Dr Spin
Tales From The Other Side
Blip Blog
Gadget Museum
However, not all drug use is done to escape personal problems.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I disagree to an extent. It may not be a conscious thing but I don't believe anyone delves into self destructive behavior that is mind altering without the desire to medicate or numb something. At least, this is what I want to think. *smile*
You are probably right that there are some individuals out there who do it because it is something to do...something different or rebellious, not sure. But for the most part, I think people do it to forget something, even those things they do not consciously remember.
Thanks for commenting,
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Brenton
Dr Spin
Tales From The Other Side
Blip Blog
Gadget Museum
Some people just enjoy the rush. IN so far as everyone has imperfect lives and we may seek out anything that feels good to counter anything that feels bad, i'll agree with you.
But saying all drug use is caused by issues? Nah... some people just want to try certain things.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
We are agreeing more than you think...perhaps I didn't make myself clear like a window. I think anyone with a problem with it is doing it to medicate.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Brenton
Dr Spin
Tales From The Other Side
Blip Blog
Gadget Museum
Allow me to listen to noting but 80s rap metal for this weeks by means of apology.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO don't do that to yourself...the metal is not a punishment, but the rap. NO> I couldn't let you do that to yourself. lol
Come back!
Voices~
Comment by Wendi
I grew up in Las Vegas, so I've seen a lot. I've met people or had friends who had no serious issues or problems - relationships were good, money was good, etc. - but they wanted to try something just because it was there. There's the addictive factor - you try something once and your body may attach itself to the need without there being anything necessarily wrong mentally, emotionally, or spiritually.
Peer pressure is a factor as well - a group goes out to a club, four out of five are doing coke (including the guy/girl you like, maybe?) and you don't want to be the fuddy duddy. You've already had a cocktail or two and you're relaxed, so you cave.... next thing you know, it's a regular social behavior, and then it escalates to home use.
Don't get me wrong - there are those who use drugs to escape, or alcohol, but I don't think it's a fair guess to suggest everyone who uses or becomes addicted to drugs is trying to escape something. Sometimes, what starts out as an "innocent" experiment turns into a powerful addiction.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
In the scenario you just described, the inability to stand alone and going along with the crowd is a problem of self esteem, "please like me".
So, I really have to agree to disagree with you and stand behind my earlier statement. I never said that everyone is escaping something by doing it. But I still believe there is an underlying emotional or psychological factor to most drug use.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Wendi
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
*smiles*
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by lethalpiano
But for now, read: DmD.
PS. Sorry for my absence but someone has come tragically close to realizing who I am so my future responses will be...perhaps non-existant...
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
No one has to know who you are...you can always deny it anyways. That is the beauty of the internet!
I will do that reading thing...I have missed you, Lethal..
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Robert-V
My quick two cents...I play guitar and write a lot of music (shameless plug: www.myspace.com/robertverbruggen), though I've never done illegal drugs (despite my long hair and fairly extreme pro-drug political beliefs). I will say, however, that alcohol has never helped me reach a "higher plane" in any sense of the word. It impedes motor control on guitar, and honestly I don't think I've ever written a "keeper" riff or melody with more than a beer or two in me (not that I make a habit of having more than a beer or two in me and then playing guitar).
I remember having some kind of surgery once, coming home hopped up on pain pills and playing...then I fell asleep.
I think it's important to draw a distinction between (A) the fact that a lot of great musicians do a lot of drugs and (B) assuming they're great musicians BECAUSE they do a lot of drugs. I remember Axl Rose saying something like he'd experimented with weed for creative purposes but never found it helped. And in The Dirt, Nikki Sixx talks about how, when he was really into drugs, he'd actually have to hold on to his SOBER moments to write (Theatre of Pain/Girls Girls Girls era -- and Dr. Feelgood was composed completely sober). Never forget Ted Nugent, Slipknot, etc., either.
I don't doubt that some people have written songs while high they wouldn't have otherwise. But I would guess many of rock's biggest druggies write some of their best stuff sober.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I think that is also an important distinction to make.
Not that I am lumping Marilyn Manson in with creative genius, because I don't personally consider him to be all that brilliant an artist, but his CD, 'Beautiful People', was written, performed, etc. while the band experimented with the creative process. They were sleep depraved to the extreme and used a wide variety of drugs while making the CD. It was one of Marilyn's most successful CD's to date. I think more because Marilyn's image sells his records more so than his talent does...but it raises an interesting question. Why do artists, who are very public about their drug use, tend to have such a cult following? Alice in Chains, Kurt Cobain, Gerry Garcia etc. can be counted within that realm. Is it a coincidence that these artists are immortalized in the minds of their fans? Does their drug use and manner of death have anything to do with it at all?
I would love to have your input on this...
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Robert V
It is one of his more successful ones, but I prefer both "Mechanical Animals" and "Golden Age."
Again, that's not to say that drugs never help creativity (I don't know), just that each anecdote has its own quirks. Nowadays Manson's into absinthe, and I think he says it helps him.
As for Garcia et al, I do think there's a certain drug culture, and that's probably got more to do with it than any positive effect of "tripping" on composition.