Ann 2
Alain
JennYWho in Muzik Today is Underrated/Overrated
October 20th 2006 03:18
I want to know if you think Christina Aguilera is an artist or a performer? Remember my rules for telling the difference? (Read Five...Six...Pick Up Sticks, Who's the Best Drummer Ever...(or something like that...)] Or give me an example of someone that you feel is under or overrated.
What are your snobbish rules for determing the difference? Now, you may not think you have them, but you do. It's that factor, that thing, that makes you turn away from the Britney Spears CD and pick up Hinder, or AIC, or Lenny.
Does someone need to write their own lyrics to impress you? Can they only release a song once? Do they have to have at least one unplugged album, duet with some one else? By what criteria do you give new music a chance?
Perhaps the biggest question is this...can a former, well, performer redeem themselves and become an Artist? I think it's possible and damn if I don't think this is what has happened with Christina Aguilera.
We seen her coming a mile away and thought, Jesus H. Christ, she's hot. AND THEN we thought, ewwww. Another Britney. But you gotta give her some respect, in the sense that she was very honest. She was very out there about herself, her likes and dislikes. She writes her own songs, or at least collaborates, and her music is strong. She has a lot of duets and the hits she does have, are a little in your damn face with the content. Is she an artist or just another wannabe? You tell me.
Let's set some ground rules once and for all, so everybody knows how it is...because we said so, that if you do this: _______, you are an artist, if you do this: ________, you are a performing monkey.
The implications are huge...we are already an international mafia...let's take over the world with our snobbery and make all the little performing monkeys our servants. At least they will look good mopping our damn floors...
Now, tell me everything....
What are your snobbish rules for determing the difference? Now, you may not think you have them, but you do. It's that factor, that thing, that makes you turn away from the Britney Spears CD and pick up Hinder, or AIC, or Lenny.
Does someone need to write their own lyrics to impress you? Can they only release a song once? Do they have to have at least one unplugged album, duet with some one else? By what criteria do you give new music a chance?
Perhaps the biggest question is this...can a former, well, performer redeem themselves and become an Artist? I think it's possible and damn if I don't think this is what has happened with Christina Aguilera.
We seen her coming a mile away and thought, Jesus H. Christ, she's hot. AND THEN we thought, ewwww. Another Britney. But you gotta give her some respect, in the sense that she was very honest. She was very out there about herself, her likes and dislikes. She writes her own songs, or at least collaborates, and her music is strong. She has a lot of duets and the hits she does have, are a little in your damn face with the content. Is she an artist or just another wannabe? You tell me.
Let's set some ground rules once and for all, so everybody knows how it is...because we said so, that if you do this: _______, you are an artist, if you do this: ________, you are a performing monkey.
The implications are huge...we are already an international mafia...let's take over the world with our snobbery and make all the little performing monkeys our servants. At least they will look good mopping our damn floors...
Now, tell me everything....
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Comment by Hellvis
Earache Hotel
I think this question is a lot bigger than you or I. I think the question becomes, what is art? Visual artists have been trying to answer this for ages. I don't think there is an answer, but through the process of trying to discover it, a lot of really great art has been created. It's all bout the journey, baby.
As for Christina, I think it's pretty obvious that she's a cut above Britney, for the very fact that she can sing her ass off. I like her songs, the production, her attitude... Is she an artist? Yeah, sure.
Criteria for art? That's a tough one. I may get back to you on this . But I think performance and the interpretation of other people's material is an artform too, in the same way I think reviewing music can be an artform, as much as critics get slagged off.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I agree with you that this is a difficult question to ask. But then, I have high standards because of the intelligence factor of my "family".
Now, let's address one issue real quick. You are absolutely right that art is subjective, or at least that is what I took from what you said. I also agree that there are levels of art. I am not sure that I agree that just because someone can do something, that it makes it art. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Art is passionate. A true love and respect for what you do is revealed in your art. You cannot possibly look at Spears and Alice in Chains and think the two have made the same impact or have the same artistic impact on their genres. Can you?
My point being, just because someone can sing, or can learn to play a musical instrument doesn't mean they are artists.
I COULD wear a bikini to work...that doesn't make me a supermodel.
As always, Hellvis.
Voices~
Comment by Hellvis
Earache Hotel
I try and keep the same open mind about music. I wouldn't call Britney Spears an artist myself. I think she is a commercial for an unnatainable plastic lifestyle. Someone like Christina, on the other hand, is more artistic. Firstly, she has a great voice that doesn't need all the pitch correction and reverb that Brintey's has. Secondly her music is generally pretty interesting and innovative within the context of the r&b/pop genre she has chosen, something which is as much a testament to her talent as it is to the songwriters and producers she has around her. On the other hand, Britney has some pretty catchy songs. too.
These things are all relative. As you say there are levels. I love Alice in Chains, but is their music art? I'd be inclined to say yes, but then there are bands in (for lack of a better term) the "alternative metal" genre who have probably pushed the limits a bit further than Alice.
I suppose that would be my first criteria for art. Being original and pushing your artform, whatever it is, towards new horizons.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Well stated. I agree with everything you said, but I do have some statements to make. (collective groan entered here.)
I am a bit simplistic in my approach to defining art. My definition is as follows: If a whino on a binder in the street can do it, its not art, with some rare exceptions and if the majority of the population cannot do it, then it is art.
As for the urinal, I agree it had a tremendous impact but I question whether that impact was positive or negative. I maintain it was negative. Very negative. When asking a question in such a facetious manner, the ramifications are that now the door has been opened for everyone who can do it, to do it and call it art. I refer you to the campbell soup display and poop in a jar. It has cheapened art to the point that it is now mocked rather than revered...it has led our culture down a slippery slope of civilization and now people like Britney Spears can get up, shake their ass, make millions of dollars and call it art. Just another manner in which the dumbing down process continues.
Thanks again, as always...
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
One more comment and then I am done, I promise you.
We also must remember that while all art is an opinion of something, the expression of that opinion should be done in a manner in which it does ask questions or cause people to think...but also in a way in which the majorty of people can't do it...I think that summarizes my earlier statement a bit more.
Thanks,
Voices~
Comment by Hellvis
Earache Hotel
I wrote a lengthy reply here and then lost it, but that's probably for the better. I came in staright away with the art talk and seem to have scared everyone off. Truth is I'm studying for an art exam and somehow your blog became a way to flex my brain. Interesting you mentioned the shit in the can, because Merd a d'artista No.059, is one of the images I have to study.
But fuck art, let's rock. I'll keep my comments focussed on the issue at hand, at least until after some other people have posted.
As artists needing to be able to do something that the majority can't: I disagree with this (to an extent). I love the concept that 'anyone can do it.' This is what punk rock is all about and is a really liberating concept. I think anyone can do music provided that its original and unique. Britney isn't that original and unique; Christina and AIC are.
But also, not anyone off the street could do what Britney does. Sure, she can't sing, but it's about an image and making little girls buy Pepsi. Thankfuly this is a dubious gift that not everyone possesses, or feel is an honorable way to make a living.
I'd much rather listen to the wino in the street, as long as he was doing something interesting and original, than someone like Eric Clapton who plays the same tired old blues riffs again and again and again. To me that's not art, it's craft: like building a cabinet or something.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I think that as Muzikal Mafia grows as a site and I finally learn what the hell I am doing, most people who come to this site will feel comfortable talking art and music. They are hand in hand for me and I hope to encourage more people to think about these things and to stop buying into the mass produced, forcefed junk out there.
I wanted to comment on one thing you said, about Britney and one thing you said about the whino on the street.
As for whether anyone can do what Britney does. I just dont agree. No, they may not make holding a large snake on stage look sexy but that has NOTHING to do with Britney...that has to do with her team of make up artists, choreographers and stylists. We have seen the girl without the team...she looks like trash. So, appearances really can't equate into the artist/performer argument because no one looks like that on their own. I stand by my belief that Britney is untalented in every way. I am not opposed to any woman being sexy and sexual. I do have a problem with that being ALL they bring to the table (cough coughjessicasimpsoncough cough)
As for the whino, I am not sure I follow on the comment that anyone can do it, if its unique and original. You think that just anyone can have the beautiful, pain filled voice of Layne Staley? I am not sure if YOU can do it, but I know that I can't hit the notes that Christina can hit.
(Of course, that isn't saying much, Hellvis. I can't sing a nursery rhyme. That was my children's first sentence, "Mamma...nooooo sing.")
I don't know, Hellvis, we may have to agree to disagree on this one!
Always a pleasure...Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Hellvis
Earache Hotel
And yes, perhaps Britney's has X-factor because her makeup and production crew are the best in the business. Who knows?
As for the wino thing. I don't think ANYONE can sing like Christina or Layne, but for me, there are things artists can bring to the table other than technical proficiency with an insturment or their voice.
I've got to admit, I have pretty fucked up taste and will argue the merits of the wino over the 'real' musician because I think people should constantly question what they value and perceive as quality. I think if people could see the beauty in the wino, expressing his soul in a way no one else can, then the world would be a much better place
While I appreciate skill and talent, I will champion ideas, originality, and purity over technical proficiency any day.
Comment by Hellvis
Earache Hotel
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I think it appears that we are disagreeing , but I really don't think we are after reading that. I think we are disagreeing in terms of the reason not to like Britney rather than the thing that makes up my mission of what I hope to accomplish through this site and what you desire to accomplish.
We are of like minds, Hellvis. I absolutely agree that different and pure trump techinical achievement. Absolutely. I see your point much better about the whino...well done. Your point. *wink*
As for the rest of it, come back, Hellvis. You make me think and I like that...
Voices~
PS: Why the name Hellvis? I have been dying to ask.
Comment by lethalpiano
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Where have you been? I have missed you.
I thought I was being subtle that I didn't like Britney...hmmm. I guess I need to work on that, don't I? (I'll get right on that.)
Nice to hear from you, don't be naughty and stay away that long again!
Do come back,
Voices~
Comment by lethalpiano
I do have to admit, I both like and dismiss your snobbish attititude towards music. It's quite healthy, I think, to be snobbish and educated, as you obviously are. Being a performer, I can slip with ease into a snobbish attitude (TOTO, I'm a FREAK for TOTO) however, I do give credit where credit is due (Jessica Simpson is nowt but a slut-Dukes Of Hazzard remake for proof). Give me another example, aside from your revered AIC that you're down with, PLEEEEEEZE!!
How about a new blog asking the general public which musician, still alive, they would want to jam with? Verdine White, for me. Oh, and Cindy Lauper, the last of the pure rocker chicks.
Maybe we should start a band...! Then, we could be percieved as, given our exposure, underrated! Oh, and can the Pop Idol shite. Oh, hang on...that's not gonna happen coz all the talent we want in our band has tragically passed away. I guess I'll just hammer the alcohol, die from such and then the world might realize who I am...
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
As for getting drunk, slam some back for me...I could use it. I am sorry to hear about your friend...oh and also the serious lack of sex...
I hope you understand, my mission is not to do any thing other than to more clearly define artistry from commercialism.
Yes, I know I do go on about AIC. You are right and I will do better...I have bipolar and everything is a bit all or nothing. No excuses, though. It doesn't follow that I would have a music site and not mention everyone, well worth mentioning. I don't want to get down in a hole with this obsession I have with AIC. That's pretty much it in a nutshell, isn't it? (sorry, couldn't help it.)
I also love Godsmack, Nickelback, Creed, Blue October, Snow Patrol, Joan Jett, Pat Benetar, Billy Joel, John Mellencamp, The Clash, Cindy Lauper, K T Tunstall, Christina Aguilera, Foreigner, G & R, Bon Jovi, and 'a few' others...
Thanks for the feedback, and listen, if you are ever performing, send the details to me or send some sound clips you could send me, I will get them posted on the Muzik board.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by lethalpiano
As for your offer to post my music on your board, I'm sure there's bootlegs out there of me. If there's not, there sure will be!
Comment by lethalpiano
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Well, I am a fan and I haven't heard your music...(that I know of)...but you are a passionate musician. I can't wait to buy some of your music. Stay tuned on the 24th..(or the 25th) I have a special little Halloween treat for you.
Again, so sorry to hear about your friend, is that his wife and new baby in the picture with him? Please do pass on my condolences to them.
Thanks for stopping by...
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by lethalpiano
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Well, let's see. I don't know your name, I have no idea where you perform, who you are with, if anyone, or any idea of a website. I suppose I can't do that, can I? But know this...I would. I just have a feeling...*smile*
Come back, as always,
Voices~
Comment by tinkster
latest single "Ain't no other man", very James Brown. The horns is this song are great. I am glad to
see that our younger artist are going back to the good ol' soul, R&B,. Gnarles Barclay's "Crazy" is
another song that touches the Motown sound. I love it that these songs have turned on the
younger population, and have made it to the top of the charts.
Christina Aguilera can kick your ass with her voice!!!! She can belt it out like Ella Fitzgerald; I hope
we can experience more upcoming artist or popular artist to take us down some different roads.
As far as her rating? She is underrated. I have underrated her until this song. I have to tell you that
I just love when an artist can to that to me. When I hear it, and relize who it is, knowing how I have
felt about them; I still smile and think "right the fuck on with that Christina"...SOLD!!!
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
ABSOLUTELY...and right on with the RIGHT ON! This is getting confusing so I am gonna stop right there with the accolades for what you just wrote, if you don't mind... :c)
I felt the same way about Aguilera. I thought she was a dirrty dirrty girl but I do like the song, 'Dirrty', and bought it. I was SHOCKED by the lyrics on the rest of the CD. Very girl power and all that...so way to go, Christina, especially on 'Beautiful', which I know was on the radio forever but again, I never gave her a chance until I bought the CD.
Thanks for the feedback...and hey, Tinkster? Check out Muzikal Mafia's new Forum...there is a category on Name that Tune...I don't know why, but I think you will have fun with that. *smile*
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by Hellvis
Earache Hotel
Anyway, I just finished my art exam and I think I did okay. Maybe using your blog as research helped me--how selfish.
As for the name, Hellvis. Well, rock 'n' roll is the devil's music and Elvis is the king of rock 'n' roll. Therefore, Elvis is evil.
Okay, maybe not but I like stupid puns and I also think it sums up the dark aspect that attracts me to rock 'n' roll while still being a bit fun and humorous.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
I may be in love with you now, you know. I do love the twisted workings of a brilliant mind...
Congrats on the art exam and if Muzikal Mafia helped with that process, then great...no problems with that.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by lethalpiano
Comment by Hellvis
Earache Hotel
I'm flattered but alas, my heart belongs to another. Thanks for the compliment, but brilliant might be a bit of an overstatement. Obsessive maybe. You got the twisted part right though.
Will let you know how the art exam went when I find out.
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
No need to be jealous...you know my heart belongs to you, as always...silly boy.
Come back,
Voices~
Comment by The Voices in my Head
The Voices in my Head
Please do let me know about the exam...I will be curious. Of course, if you got a good grade, anything you now have to do an assignment on must include a link to Muzikal Mafia... :c)
As for the other, who has your heart, well, I concede defeat on that one. *smile*
Have a good one, and do come back,
Voices~